US businesses will re-open in a new reality. Social distancing regulations may make it difficult for some establishments to realize profit margins sufficient to support growth and long-term viability. We are likely to see a continued increase in online trans-actions. Some macro strategist suggests that cryptocurrencies will replace the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency. With Profound Conversationalists Jameel Aalim-Johnson and Yaya J. Fanusie, we explore MLPI’s new visions for equity and inclusion in the development of capital markets, investments, and wealth-building in a post COVID-19 pandemic world.

Show Topics and Highlights

The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision. ~Helen Keller

When you look at this country's history, which we're looking at, is taking what should be the most efficient use of capital and you damming it up to cut off some areas and redirecting it.

There's going to have to be a greater focus on cybersecurity and not just for the big companies.

“I’m sure that in the next few months, a lot of jobs are going to be looking for people who know to how to administer webinars who know how to run a zoom call and do all the things with the participants, etc.”

“People will always serve you better if you bring them something that they need.”

The economic stimulus is not dealing with the long term.

It's going to take a whole lot of black banks to get attention of large companies.

“I think most of what you're talking about which creates these inequities is just a basic desire to say ‘I have to make sure that I survive before I concern myself whether you survive.’ “

Profound Conversations Executive Producers are the Muslim Life Planning Institute, a national community building organization whose mission is to establish pathways to lifelong learning and healthy communities at the local, national and global level.   MLPN.life

The Profound Conversations podcast is produced by Erika Christie www.ErikaChristie.com

Full Transcript

Linda Howard

Thank you and welcome to today's profound conversation. Today's profound conversation is towards profound social, political economics, a new vision of equity and inclusion in the development of capital markets, investments in wealth building post COVID-19 pendants. So that's a mouthful. But that's what we're going to talk about today. And I normally try to start with a quote in when I thought about today's session. The quote that came to mind for me is a quote by Helen Keller, and the quote is, the only thing worse than being blind is having sight, no vision. The only thing worse than being blind is having sight and no vision. So today, we're going to be talking to two of our profound conversation lists. And we're going to start talking about some vision for the future, whenever like as it relates to economics. And so I will Today we have with us to Profound Conversations lists, Jameel Johnson, and Yaya Fanusie, am I pronouncing the right? Fanusie.

Yaya Fanusie

Fanusie.

Linda Howard

Fanusie. And I will ask the two of them to actually take a little bit about about what they do. And I'm going to request that we do a little bit of education because we want to make sure everybody's on the same page and everybody understands some of the terminology that's being used. So, Jameel, I know that you work for NASDAQ. Can you just tell us a little bit about what NASDAQ is and what you do?

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

I was really introducing this more as I do policy work for a new york FinTech company. Okay. But NASDAQ is an exchange. But I'm not really here to discuss NASDAQ, just to be clear, represent NASDAQ, I'm really concerned about the overall economic issues related to our community, how it's being affected now and how we develop it in the future. But my background expertise tends to be more in financial services, policy and issues related to things like access to capital, small business development, and ultimately how resources are distributed. You want to talk about the capital markets in general, one of the capital markets about the capital markets are really about taking available capital and distributing it to those who can utilize it hopefully, most efficiently. swine production and production ultimately leading to job creation goods and services that are needed within the within the economy that people are willing to pay for. So that's really what the capital markets is about. It's about the distribution of capital, where it can be purchased, most efficient use, but the cause of policy issue, you know, throughout the nation, the country's history, existing policy issues. It's almost like if you take all the possible distribution channels for capital, it's like cutting some of them all. It's like debt is like what a dam does, right? Water wants to flow to its natural, you know, areas, but then if you put a dam there, a lot more water goes in one direction, and it's cut off from another direction. So when you look at this country's history, which we're looking at, is taking what should be that most efficient use of capital and you damming it up to cut off some areas and redirecting it's out there. So the question I think, for us is, how do we break up those dams so that capital can flow in our direction for our efficient use and productivity?

Linda Howard

All right. Yaya. You have a really interesting background. And I don't know if our, if our participants today got a chance to look at your background, but I know that you used to work with the CIA. And you are currently with the Center for New American Security. And you also have a company that you founded within cryptocurrency, AML. And that's for anti money laundering strategies. Okay. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do. And let us know a little bit about what cryptocurrency currency is and what CNAs does.

Yaya Fanusie

Sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for for inviting me. So I'm a researcher and I'm a consultant. My background, I guess you could sum it up by saying that I help companies. In my consulting work I help financial institutions and technology companies assess risks when it comes to dealing with financial technology. So risks, usually economic risks, but my specialty is anti money laundering risks. So my background, as you said, you know, worked in government and worked in the intelligence community for several years. And in that capacity, it was my job to assess risks and to provide policymakers insights and analysis on national security risks. And so I focused a lot on counterterrorism. I focused at one point also on economic threats to the United States, and we're sort of through that lens and I've been I've had it's through that lens that I speak to policymakers. So when it comes to what we're dealing with today, I guess you could say that, you know, my angle is, you know, the need for a pushing the need for us to assess the risks to our economy, to identify scenarios, to identify ways in which we may be vulnerable, and on a community level, figuring out ways for us to address or deal with a prepare for this new economic situation. How do we deal with these new vulnerabilities? How do we deal with these new risks at the Center for a New American Security, that's a think tank in Washington DC that focuses on national security issues, but I'm part of their economic, energy and security group. So I deal with again, economic issues, sort of the nexus between economic security and national security.

Linda Howard

Now Jameel, you talked about reflowing capital. And now we know that in this, in this post pandemic world, we're probably going to be looking at a lot more online transactions. And I'm assuming we're going to see that as well as it relates to financial transactions in yada, yada. When I look at a lot of what you do what no, you also focus in on where some of those risks with respect to those financial transactions that we might start to see online. So if you were to have a conversation with Jamil about kind of what we can look for, as this reflow of capital in an online world, what is it that he would have to look out for?

Yaya Fanusie

Well, I don't I'm pretty sure that the Jameel is on top of it but but but far To talk to him, you know, I would say some things that I'm sure he's aware of right that, as you mentioned, more online traffic, more people at home more people doing digital transactions. The way I look at it is that in a sense, that's a bigger target area. If we're thinking about, you know, I look at elicit actors, I look at folks that are trying to exploit our good work or good business good transactions. And since we have more people staying in their homes, not doing face to face business transactions, doing more online, we can see this in so many ways. And I'm sure that it's impacting financial technology companies, investment companies, because now more of their users are in the digital environment. So it probably would mean that there's going to have to be a greater focus on cybersecurity and not just for the big companies. But for everyday people that one of the things that I would say is that now I think everyday people, folks like you would need people in the audience. are actually going to have to be more aware of operational security to use a security a security term, we call it opsec. Meaning that, you know, the big government institutions, the big companies, they're aware of their security when they're dealing with they're doing business, when they're doing transactions on the site. There's sort of cybersecurity or cyber hygiene, those types of things, that everyday people are gonna have to do that, because we're having these conversations, these Profound Conversations digitally. Are we protected? Are there people who could be exploiting our conversation, people could be doing economic stealing economic secrets, identity protection, these are things that are going to become more important as we deal with more digital transactions.

Linda Howard

What do you have to say to that, Jameel?

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

Well, I mean, one is 100% completely right, because here's an issue. If you look at I'm sure the history of the world, but if you look at let's say, American history in the last 100 or so years, and every now major crisis ultimately leads to change. You have the market crash of 29 that created the 33 and 34 Act, which said that if companies wanted to raise money from the public, they had to register, it created the Securities and Exchange Commission. It created the requirement to register your securities. And the kind of transparency you had to have as a company now, as well as accredited things like the FDIC and so on and so forth, to help deal with the banking issue. Bring us more up to date, more recent crisis, you have something like Hurricane Sandy. Hurricane Sandy basically shut down downtown shut down Wall Street, but for two days, and reason to shut down Wall Street for two days was because even though certain players were able to operate remotely, other players were not if they Couldn't get to their offices they couldn't function. One of the benefits of it, though, was that other companies became more resilient. And were like, Hey, we can function from anywhere now. But what that also means, and this goes to what you're saying about more people working from home, because what's going to happen, it's not even, let's say, for instance, that you found a cure both a cure and a vaccine within the next six months, for COVID-19, and it was going to work for the next, you know, three new viruses that came about. This has shown companies where they can be more efficient on decrease their real estate costs. And also there's going to be a mindset of people. We can also decrease the opportunity to spread potential diseases by simply not interacting all the time, every day, the way that we do will interact when we want to, not because we always need to, what that means and what I'm seeing it myself and other people A scene is what kind of setups you companies have for the employees at home. So they're going to invest more to have you in place and operating function. So what's going to happen is you're going to be doing like someone with things online and you're going to be doing, you're not going to interview at home or what do you do less, you got to go to the bank last, right? So I'm already home, I often sometimes will go to the bank, when I'm at work and say, Hey, I'm gonna take a few minutes, run down to the bank, do a transaction, that bank is nowhere near me now. So I end up having to make sure that my security at home is has to be greater because you know, who's also looking at this. And this is something you know, Janya looks out for his side, is that the cyber criminals are looking at it more. They're also aware of the trends. And they are aware of how people are going to be utilizing online services more and more, they're gonna be ordering more and more, and how can they exploit those issues, but take me back to it. Our community, one of the things that we end up dealing with and you talk about in an online world, is the fact that so many of our business services are small, because we're economically still on, you know, the lower levels, so to speak. So a lot of our businesses tend to be more retail and service than, say, industrial and manufacturing. And so on a case like this where people aren't going out to the stores, in some cases, the government has insisted that the stores be closed. What's their alternative? And I think what we found is that many of them did not could have had or maybe weren't aware of it or couldn't afford the infrastructure to have more of an online presence, even if they had a retail store, have an online presence to be able to say, even though you can come into my store, I can still service you. I have a whole online community that I can still deal with. So I think Have some ways of access. Just to give you an example of a bigger facility. We know for instance, that Modelo is going out of business. They've been a business for 100 and some odd years, right? I think the great grandfather started the company, they're going out of business has nothing to do with COVID-19 already gone out of business.

The great grandson was one of the company I was going to remember said that part of the issue was that the New York teams aren't doing as well. So people basically aren't coming into my power finale. But there was a response to that was something somebody said, that's not the reason. The issue is you never adjusted to an online world. So you're only expecting people to come into the store. And when they're not coming into the store, you're in trouble. If you look at certain stores now, you know, that's buying stock prices going back up. Dick's Sporting Goods. Yeah, these stores are close to but they're costly shipping out given online will ship it to you right away and so on and so forth. So as even as small business Have to develop this online sophistication. And of course, that also means as your your issue of being secure.

Linda Howard

Setting up security protocols can be very involved, and also can get to be a cost that a lot of small businesses may have trouble dealing with. I know, when you're looking at setting up security protocols and compliance protocols, it can be a very expensive process. So is there are something that Jojo Is there something that when we look at small businesses, is there some resources that those small businesses can go to, to be able to put in place some of the security protocols and maybe some of the larger businesses have? Because they have the they have the capital in the infrastructure to be able to set that up?

Yaya Fanusie

Why I might Just be able to say a little on this because my specialty is not necessarily cyber security. But Jameel feel free to step in if you have better insight on this. So I don't deal as much with the sort of cyber infrastructure, but I do know that there are certain standards. You know, probably what small businesses can do is, is take a take a hint from the bigger businesses that actually have to follow or tend to follow specific security standards. There are a couple of security standards out there and actually don't want to get the acronyms incorrect. But if you look sort of cybersecurity standards, in the financial in the financial sector, there are international standards that cybersecurity companies have to have to follow. And I think if I am not mistaken, I believe one of the regulators known as FINRA si n ra which Jamila would be very familiar with actually has A Guide online for cybersecurity. So that might be a resource that people could look to because you're right most time the big companies they have they have whole cybersecurity departments or smaller companies, which tend to be more mobile vulnerable don't have that. So they should probably look at some of these resources.

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

Interesting point. Yaya. FINRA as you bring them up, which is the financial regulatory authority, which is basically the regulator for which is the private regulated SRO self regulated organization for broker dealers used to be the National Association of Securities Dealers, who created the National Association of Securities Dealers, automated quotes. I'll let you figure out what that acronym now stands for.

Yaya Fanusie

Very good.

Linda Howard

All right, in and now, you know, the cyber security is one thing, but you Yaya, you also focus on some The potential fraud issues correct?

Yaya Fanusie

I'll jump into the fraud issues. But I wonder if I could sort of bring up you know, because because we're talking about threats and risks, but one of the things that I think that it's important to identify our opportunities, because you know, we are, I think we are seeing a lot of these threats. But if I could actually offer another way to look at this is that in this new environment, they're obviously going to be shifts, and we're talking about them be more online transactions, they're going to be challenges that we've seen with social distancing. But another way to think about this is that there also are going to be maybe new sectors that open up or that expand. So if we go from the online transactions, the social distancing is actually limiting some of the, you know a lot of the entertainment activity that we had amusement One thing to think about is the need for more digital content, the need for more digital media. Um, you know, a couple of things to throw out there in the first few weeks of the shelter in place back in March, I think Verizon had noted that online gaming had increased by was, I don't know, 75% or something in just a couple of weeks. Well, obviously, more people are using our online, Netflix reported a huge spike in its new subscribers. Right. So what does this mean? This means if we're thinking about businesses that maybe you're going to see constraints, for those that are entrepreneurs that are out there, what are going to be the areas that might open up, I would say, digital media content, you know, particularly content that could be scripted. There's a lot of talk about more animation, because it's going to be even difficult for Hollywood right now to be producing what it produces with scripted shows and even non scripted shows. an animation is something that you can I'm sorry, animation is something that you can do in a socially distance, right? That all types of digital content, the things that we're doing so for me that this shows that there may be an opportunity for businesses that get into digital content, media content, skills, let's think about skill set. This webinar is being put together and there are hosts and co hosts administering it. Back in the day, if you will work in an office job, you would have to put you know, you know, Microsoft Word and PowerPoint and access. I'm sure that in the next few months, a lot of jobs are going to be looking for people who know to how to administer webinars who know how to run a zoom call and do all the things with the participants and etc. So I just that's I'll stop there to say that we should be thinking about some of these challenges that are going to be heading in this new economy. We should also be thinking about what areas may open up where do we need to make a shift so that we can benefit in this time. New pandemic environment.

Linda Howard

So where do where do we see a shift in terms of capital flow?

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

Yeah, it's like I was saying earlier on capital tries to flow to places of greater efficiency. So what will happen is the capital flow will go to these areas that yeah just mentioned, because they're going to see this is where the growth is. Just eventually enough. I was on the phone the other day with the Deputy Chief of Staff for an elected official. And she was talking about how we have each downloaded all these various platforms because everybody we talked to, you know, I mean, like zoom has obviously gotten the most attention. But now you've got Microsoft Teams. You've got something I just heard I just used for the first time a night before last stream yard, which really kind of considers itself like a broadcast studio online. And of course, you've got Google something and other, Google always has something. But the capital is going to flow to those areas where you can serve as people without necessarily having bricks and mortar. So bricks and mortar is gone. I'm not saying it's going to die because things will get better. But there will certainly be an adjustment, in many cases away from bricks and mortar to online platforms and services. And also the issue is that it becomes less of, it's more resilient, but also it's less capital intensive. So when it comes to cost, if I'm looking at an investment, and I'm saying in order for this person to run their business, they have to build bricks and mortar, pay rent every day. Pay insurance on that facility versus someone who's wanting to similar business, but is able to forego all those costs, which means more of my dollars can can go into, say permanent equipment in a sense of in a sense of the IT equipment more resilient IT equipment can go more into marketing, perhaps can go more into on people to do sales and things like that, I'm probably going to divert my capital toward that, because it's more efficient in regard to the ultimate delivery of the product. So that's where a lot of capital is going to go. Versus, you know, you've had, you know, the interesting thing about this crisis is like one CEO said recently, we couldn't anticipate it, and we couldn't do anything about it. And we can't do anything. bounded when I say can't do anything about it in the sense of they can't stop it. Right? It's here and you have to deal with it. But what you can do about it is how you deal with it yourself. But the fact of matter is there are retail outlets that are in a situation where I can only do but so much shifting. Yes, I am getting people to buy from my door. I'm getting picked up with doing delivery. But you find that that is best for those restaurants that are predominantly. I mean, this isn't affecting Domino's whatsoever, right? As long as you get people in to make the pizza, who cares because they were delivering before but if your main appeal is that you are Sit down, sit down, socialize restaurant, you have a bigger issue than the person who is I run the name, grab a lunch 15 minutes walk out, I can still do the same. I call the guy up tell him I'm calm and go online and pick up is waiting for me out the door. So you know, those risks those on businesses that show an efficiency to not have to have bricks and mortar customers in the store are going to attract more capital than those who don't have to have that. Because people will look at every crisis and say, this can happen again, what position on you're going to be in when it does?

Linda Howard

Okay, so let's talk a little bit about, you know, it's a good conversation to talk about the flow of capital. But what we do know is that there's some communities that capital just has not flowed into. There's populations that have a difficult time getting access to capital, and that was pre cobit during cobit. And so if we were looking at a vision, we know that there are some things that does not work for all people. Mm hmm. So if we start talking about envision what can what can we look at today? More Equity and Inclusion when we talk about this reflow of capital.

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

Well, here's, here's my thought on this, and this is something that I and some other people taking a look at. Right, right right now. One, we have to look at what our needs are. And to me it's a combination of and this country has always been about this combination of economic need, and policy. Those two things go hand in hand. If you leave one out without the other, you're likely to come up with some failure or come up against those who understand they go together. So you're basically fighting. you're you're you're in a boxing match only one hand if you haven't put the two together. So let me give you an example. There is a need for one of the things that we found out in this crisis, particularly when it comes to the people program, that those who have a long term relationship banking relationship were able to get access to capital first. Those who did not work, you know, we're running around trying to see which bank will take that application and who get them first. And within a week, the first batch of money that Congress appropriated were now and then as a second batch and they're trying to get more, you have companies in a situation where they've been empowered so they're sending money back. But the but the reality is not having that relationship was damaging to certain communities, including ours. So one of the things I know of a group of businesses who are saying wait a minute, the black banks need assets, they need depository assets, we need better relationships with our bank, so that when our needs come up, they able to serve us and part of that relationship, which is also human relationship is who they know you Who are you why understand what you do. You understand what your capital needs are on a regular basis, so that when you come You need something, boom, I know who you are, boom I can take care of I can take care of it. So they're looking at combining where they have multiple banks. Most of them are the large events that you know about, you know, Bank of America, JPMorgan TV, wherever the case may be, and saying, let's look at a bank that wants to service and truly needs our business. And we can combine our assets and put it in that bank, which will be a black bank. And and then, as a response, saying, look, we want to be some of your prime customers, right? So that when we have capital needs, you're able to provide them to us where the other banks where other banks are putting us last on the line, you'll put us first on the line. You know, the difference between being a a big fish in a small pond versus a small fish in a big pond. But ultimately, all relationships are best that are mutually beneficial. And this is the kind of relationship that we mutual beneficial. between black businesses and black banks, but also those banks, one of the things that's key to combine those assets. In other words all targeting about particular bank is that they have a good online capability, which goes back to what you were asking more earlier than developing the online capability to be of service.

Linda Howard

And how would one go about I know you talked about in terms of maybe looking at some of the good black banks, how would businesses in general establish better relationships with any bank?

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

What could give you an example one is, I mean, banks are always looking for assets, everybody, every branch manager, all the line of business development person has to show what they are offering to the business. In other words, why am I paying? So they actually want to meet potential new customers because that helps them meet their monthly issue of what kind of deposits are you bringing into the Bank. So you're killing it. If you're looking at bricks and mortar, then you can go right into a bank speak to the branch manager, customer service, a lending officer, someone who has that responsibility and say, hey, look, this is what I have. This is my business. I'm looking at doing the deposits here, but also here my overall needs. This is how much money wants to my accounts every month. This is how much I deposit what I keep on savings. This is the kind of line of credit that I need because banks make make money on the fees on the lines of credit. So you're basically showing them this is how I can help you by paying a depositor in your bank. How can you help me What kind of what what what what kind of credit programs? What kind of services do you offer me? How much money do I need to deposit here in order to be a preferred customer or get with a call like a personal banker, and then you compare banks you shot just like anything. It's a competition. I'm looking at other banks, what can you offer me. But one of the other ways to do it is if you can go in with a group, because whatever your needs are, there are other small businesses that also have similar needs. And if you can say we're all looking to put this so now the depository amount goes goes up. I was like, Oh, hey, we'd like to help you guys. Because you're bringing them something that they need, people will always serve you better if you bring them something that they need. So for instance, you have an organization called the National Bankers Association. And they represent minority banks up banks across the country, and they talk on a regular basis. And I happen to know an issue of them bringing, you know, and they meet with the CEOs, the CEOs, me. So that could be a situation where if some group says we're looking to we're looking for a black bank, and we're going to combine our assets into that bank, they could go to the NBA and the NBA. Say, Hey, I'm gonna bring you know what you have to the CEOs and see who who was interested. So you're in a situation where you can say, Hey, we're going to have these different banks looking for our business. And they will give us preferential treatment.

Linda Howard

Now, Yaya, there's the cryptocurrency change these dynamics?

Yaya Fanusie

No, I don't think crypto. And I know you've mentioned that earlier. We didn't get to go into defining that, but it doesn't change the dynamics. I think the thing that I would mention is that cryptocurrencies are more a sign of innovation to pay attention to more so than being something that's going to, you know, put everything change everything, flip everything on its head. I think what we're dealing with now is we're witnessing an interesting, I don't know if it's maybe convergence. So cryptocurrencies have been around for about 10 years, at least Bitcoin has been around for 10 years, sort of a niche thing. A lot of people investing in it. speculate on it, but it's sort of been a niche, a very niche thing. What you're what I'm seeing now is that two things are happening. One, there's now a better regulatory environment. So everyone that was dealing with selling cryptocurrencies buying cryptocurrencies, those companies, they're now facing, I'd say a more stricter regulatory environment there now, you know, anti money laundering standards and other other compliance standards that that these companies have to be involved with. So that means that this sort of crypto industry cryptocurrency industry, in many ways is getting more formalized. That doesn't mean that necessarily that is getting adopted, but it means it's getting formalized. The other thing that's happening, that we should pay attention from a policy perspective is now banks or central banks are actually talking about, or at least they're researching the idea of creating central bank digital currencies. So a lot of this is discussion basically, without getting too much into details. It just means that now you have policymakers. You have the big banker, the central bankers, government and finance ministries, thinking about ways to digitize the current their currencies, and to come up with maybe even new methods of interacting with dispersing money through banks. Right. So so we're at this really interesting time within the pandemic, where they're now policy questions, but how do we make sure we infuse money to, to businesses and to everyday people, people are looking at new ways for more efficient payments. So all that goes to say, is that, you know, all that goes to say is that we're witnessing a lot of financial innovation and our financial technology, experimentation. cryptocurrencies, just in case people wanted, I didn't define that. But just to give a synopsis definition, right. cryptocurrency is basically it's a virtual currency. It's a decentralized currency. It's a digital asset that's not backed by, you know, the Fed is not backed by by an asset necessarily. It's really cold. That's supposed to virtually represent value and that you can transfer from people to from one to another like like a Bitcoin. So, so what does this mean for for for the future of banks, I would say that, you know, nobody here can tell the future no one has a, you know, quote unquote crystal ball or anything. But for particularly, I think small banks, and even the big banks. You know, financial institutions should be paying attention to these changes in payments, they should be thinking about the fact that China is actually rolling out, they're digitizing their own currency, they should be thinking about the the fact that we're probably going to be seeing some changes in how people transact, we're going to be seeing some changes in money. I can't say exactly how that is going to look like. But I would say I'll end with this, this sort of anecdote, because I think we're at a moment similar to what we had, what 20 or or almost 30 years ago, I was a college student in the 90s. And I was in the Bay Area, I'm from California. And I was a student in graduated Berkeley in 1997. And the thing that that so that I really reflect on is when I was a college student, I was majoring in economics. I was in next door to Silicon Valley. And I was very focused on economic development on education and sort of advancing the African American community. And when I look back, I realized that I was right next door to this great new innovation that was happening that revolutionized business that revolutionized you know, the internet that sort of changed everything. But I am most of my my African American colleagues, students, we were totally unaware of it. We didn't I mean, maybe we got emails in college, but we were not sort of on the ground level involved with that innovation. So Google sprung up right next to us and, and years later, we were like, Wow, I didn't even know that was going on. And so I would say that there's there's a similar situation here. Not exactly the same But there's a lot of innovation that's happening and cryptocurrencies are just a part of that. And I think that we're going to have to be involved with that innovation, even if it's not technically being a computer science, computer scientist, but being in the mix, where you're aware of these innovations, and even that you're thinking about how these innovations maybe could be applied to our circumstance, how they could potentially provide solutions to the situations that we're dealing with. There's a company that I've been talking to called emergency impact, you know, run by startup founded by a young African Americans that are computer scientists, and they're creating this organization to try to come up with blockchain solutions. It's the technology that deals with cryptocurrencies and to help a humanitarian organizations and other social enterprises to help them with their mission. So take this technology that people are innovating and use it for you know, humanitarian assistance for helping poor families, etc, etc. So we have to, I think, be in the mix of the innovation, because this innovation is going, you know, may impact the financial system and our way of doing business as the years progress.

Linda Howard

I want to kind of focus in a little bit on this issue around inequities. And Jameel, from your perspective, what do you think drives the wealth in equity that we see here in America?

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

Well, the same thing that has driven it since the existence of mankind. You can look at it as you can use the evil term of greed. Or you can use the term of self survival. What do people care about? They care about themselves first. Their families say their clan, their tribe, and then nation and then it becomes The rest of humanity. So what happens is if I have the ability to access more resources than you do, if you look at it from the from the basic issue of an organism trying to survive, let's get down to the basic animal instinct. The Cheetah makes a kill. The Lions have bigger they can take it. Right? They don't care if it's fair or not. This is what they need to survive. I think most of what you're talking about what creates these inequities is just a basic desire to say I have to make sure that I survive before I concern myself whether you're survive. Now, that's not what we call you mean, it's better off if everybody survives, but people tend to think individually singularly first. But what has happened is in this country is that It has become part of those survival tools on equities have been also placed into policy. So you end up creating a situation that that that says, We're not only we're not going to compete on an equal level, we're going to make sure that you cannot compete with them. So you never get after slavery, which was obviously an issue, which was all about economics. I need cheap labor. You know, now we call it shipping jobs overseas, right? But it was the same. It was the same incentive. I need cheap labor to increase on the profits of my production. After that, it was okay. We're going to have policies in place that says you can't work here. You can't work there. You can't get educated here. You can't do this because I don't want you competing on the same plane as I get when when we make investments, we're going Put a situation in that says we make investments in housing. You can't live here, you can't get these loans. But it all goes back to wanting to maintain money, maintain them in equity that says, I make sure me and mine survive. I'm not concerned as much about you and yours.

Linda Howard

So how do we how do we create that shift? And that's for either one of you. It's like we understand that, that this is something that's been happening since the beginning of time. And definitely when we look at, you know, history of America, you know, it equities were built into the constitution around. And so if we're, we can't look to those that created in equities to change in equity. So how do we create that shift?

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

My initial opinion, just to say something really quick, quickly, was first we have to identify what our needs are. Identify The opportunities, work collectively toward the investment. But also make it identifies those things to policymakers support those in large numbers who are willing to agree to meet those needs. And then hold them accountable for making sure those policies are in place. And now that we'll say what people like my for short steps to help them to change those inequities. It doesn't it's easier said than done always. But I think those I would say those are the four steps to changing those inequities.

Yaya Fanusie

Yeah, I would, I would add add to it, and I would even I would, I would probably frame frame things a little bit differently in terms of the you know, even if the constitutional rules because I would, I would, I would say that the iniquities were not sort of in infused into the Constitution, I would actually say that we had a situation That was lacking. But that actually, you know, we stand on a strong basis that really the principles were were were, you know, one of equity. And so but it just wasn't implemented in the right way. I would, I would look, I would say that a solution is very an inward and inward one. A lot of what I think he would Jamil pointed to is a natural process, right? It's not to say the sort of survive sense of survival is not evil or bad in itself, right. It's how you know, it's how we sort of implemented because every organism is to has to survive. I actually would put the solution in really back to family. And the reason I say that is because if you think about a lot of this is just what happens naturally. When you naturally have a family. You naturally want it to survive. You want it to be safe and secure. You want to provide for it if you're the parent, you want it to grow. You want your children to be educated, you want to have peace, you want to have tranquility, and you want to progress. So once you have that you actually have an environment where it's really natural to take care of your economic self interest to promote and then more broadly for your community, it almost sort of just flourishes out from that, right from you protecting your kids to having them grow to living in peace and to functioning and prosperous. One of our key issues is that that part is broken. If you don't have if you're not oriented around sort of family security and unhealthy family, you're not going to have what you need to sort of go out there and economically produce. So I would say that it really goes back to maybe a revamping of really the philosophy of doing for yourself, and translating that into, you know, becoming productive for your family economically productive, because the thing is, in our society, we have these inequities. All of it is not necessarily because this group over here, let's take one particular group, let's take a high income group like the you know, the Asian minority, you know, it's not always that minority. Group X, which is on top is specifically trying to harm Group B, a lot of times what's happening is Group B is not doing certain things. So I put it on us, I actually put the onus on us to see that we're in a competitive environment, nobody's going to do for us. No, there's never been in history in the world where one group helped really helped one whole group to come up, the group has to come up has to has to come up itself. So I would just put that out there like that.

Linda Howard

I'm going to open up some questions in a minute. The question that I want to throw out to both of you or either one of you, is given all of this, what do you think the significance of the stimulus checks that have gone out to individuals and families? What What impact do you think that this may have on the economy, if any, and what impact does it have on kind of this? Then the cycle social dynamics.

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

I went the last one. You want to start this one?

Yaya Fanusie

Yeah. Okay, so Okay, I'll just make my real quick. I'll just, so I will say, I'm sure short term versus long term. My concern is that what we're talking about with the economic impact payments stimulus is you're addressing an economic crisis in the short term, which we have to which is how to how can people survive? I know they're going to be issues, maybe we can get into that in terms of how it's been dispersed. And Jamil I think pointed pointed to that. But even with that, that is not touching on the long term effects, the long term impact, right at the end of the day, we have to get we're gonna have to get past survival. And what do we do, there's still going to be questions about well, who is going to function or who is going to flourish in this environment when we Have these new economic shifts when we have a new environment? So the economic stimulus, I would say, is not dealing with the long term. And that's where us communities, we're going to have to figure out how do we address the long term, it's not going to come from 1200 dollars 1700 dollars in the short term.

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

I would agree. You know, 70%, the, the economic stimulus checks are meant to be just there to be a shot in the arm to the economy, because 70% of the US economy is consumer spending. So the point was to put hands put money into the hands of consumers. So hopefully, they'll go out and spend, of course, part of the problem that it has in this particular economy because of where we are, is that there are places where you can't spend it, right. So if my store is closed, you could give everybody in my neighborhood a million dollars. I get zero, right? So if that's doesn't have the same kind of an effect, as it might have had say after the 2008 financial crisis. But it's meant to say, well maybe people can hold on for a little while longer because we don't know how long this is going to last. But you know, the other issue but the problem is that that kind of stimulus not necessarily given everybody $1,000 but too often when we do tax policy in the United States. It's always looked at it ultimately comes down to the people on the bottom get a little something to make themselves feel better. The people on the top get a whole lot of stuff. Right? So you do the 2017 tax break on Tax Act. And you know, somebody say every family gonna get $1,000 you know how quick $1,000 goes if you have a family but if you're in the 1% your your tax break came now Like 10 million or something to that effect, but it doesn't really help the economy, because people have wealth, already are able to spend all the money that they need, as a consumer when they need it, that's the benefit of having wealth. But if you put more shift more money toward the lower end, they will spend, like, you know, the module pen to be spent, I have a look at numbers later, like 85%, or something that effect. But the lower you go, the higher that percentage is, you know, you give to someone who's in the blue collar working, they're going to spend every dollar that you give them, you go to the middle class, they're going to spend 80, maybe they'll put 20 aside and so on, so forth. So when if you want to give the economy's long term boost, you have to shift more money to the to the lower end. So it benefits businesses because they get more customers, you get more consumer spending, you create more more more jobs, and it becomes a cycle. I also was an econ major.

Linda Howard

All right. So I asked Erika to look and see whether or not we have any questions. But before I do that, I just want to, there's a few things. I think this conversation could have spun off into a lot of different directions. And I'd like to just kind of think about where we may have some future conversations. And listening to listening to what I heard today. One of the things that came to mind for me is, is more of a quote, coming out of the con, which is I will not change the condition of people until they change what is in themselves. And so, I like for us to just look at being able to have this conversation in another episode to talk about how do we begin to address what's in ourselves to be able to change The conditions that we find ourselves in where we're having these discussions around, around in equities. And so, I'd like to, for you to think about that and for us to think about who else might be able to join that profound conversation as we start to think about this vision in new post pandemic world. And, and on that note, I'll ask EriKa, do you have any? Do we have any questions?

Erika Christie

Yes, we do have a question for the panelists. What are the recommendations for businesses for establishing relationships with banks and finance institutions. And Post Covid 19 will it be any simpler to establish these ties?

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

Banks are always looking for business whether you're online banks by yourself, let me go a slightly different direction. And I'm not here to do advertisement but There is a you know, a black banker came out of JPMorgan, who is really looking at the needs of underserved communities and how they can get them out of being the unbanked to being banked by offering them various services, a lot of it will be online, even though there is a banking relationship underneath it, whether whether deposits ultimately go but it ends up being much lower cost. So I think, you know, one another, as he gave me was he save something like, you know, several thousand dollars a year just on banking costs. Like Francis, I remember what I left, you know, one of the big, big big banks and want to change jobs, some some years back, and I automatically started saving $300 a year just on maintenance fees. But I think that one of the issues if you're a small business, everybody wants to go to the big bank. But the reality is sometimes a small regional bank, a local bank, that community bank is going to appreciate your your business more, and they give you more attention. And I think particularly as we look at the African American community, we have to consider that we have to come up together. So if you're saying, well, I looked at some of these black banks, but they can offer me everything that you know, they're they're five us banks, the United States, right, they can offer me everything that wasn't taken often. Well, there are majority companies that when you go to offer their service, your service as a business, say, well, you can offer me what you know, big service company can offer me and your mindset is, well give me a chance. Well, you have to give these banks a chance to so that we can build our community together, but you can also demand from them certain levels of service and and individual attention. That ultimately may suit you better, because you will be first in line or you know, maybe you know, somewhere near the front of the line with a small bank, then you will be with a large bank, and depending upon what kind of assets you have to offer and that's why I go back to the cooperative maybe coming in with other businesses, because then you can shoot right up to the top of the bank. We talk about establishing relationship and get you know, the Senior Vice President, the Executive Vice President, even the CEO, because the assets that you bring in a large enough to get their attention, it's going to take a whole lot of black banks to get the attention of say, Jamie diamonds. I mean, a lot of black businesses, what do we have to get the direct attention of say, jamie diamond right? But for you know, maybe for a harbor for an industrial or for a, you know, one United Bank you can get more direct attention.

Linda Howard

I see that there is a question from from Andre. Erika, do you see that question?

Erika Christie

Yes, I did. Yes. Andre's question is, how can we get the inefficiency of racial policy as it relates to system systematic marginalization of black people viewed as a "risk factor" to the full recovery of the economy?

Yaya Fanusie

That's a big question.

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

Quite a philisophical questions.

Yaya Fanusie

That's a big question. I'm sure. Um, and, you know, we have to, we'd have to pick, pick that apart. Um, you know, there's an assumption there, there's an assumption that you can Change, you know that there's assumption that you're actually going to be able to change some of that there out the way I did. I mean, I have maybe different perspective, I have a perspective that, you know, we have to focus on the what, what sister Linda had just mentioned, right in terms of what can we do to change to change ourselves and that's not to negate the environment. But if I go back to again, our history of do for self right, we actually faced more worse circumstances, you know, in the decades past, and we had to develop a spirit of Okay, we're going to get up we're going to you know, we're going to rise out of the situation we shall overcome. And we have to keep that spirit I think there's a little bit too much in my mind emphasis on okay change the outsides, you know, please someone change the outside circumstances so that we can come up and, and I think we have to have that spirit of do for self which is in my eyes. translated as saying, be economically productive, advancing, taking the best out of the situation and rising above, which we did when we were, you know, up from slavery, we were coming out of slavery. So I'm no, I'm not answering 100 question. I'm just providing a different tack on it.

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

I would want to add, you know, one thing to that because I agree with him in the self, you know, do for self thing. Sometimes people think that's a debate between the, you know, the left and the right, you know, aggressive and conservative, but it's really not because the reality is, there's only one person in this life whose actions you can control and that is your own. And sometimes you have to accept that somebody else unless they come to you and say they feel differently. You have to accept the fact that somebody else doesn't necessarily have your best interest in mind. So acknowledging that, then it becomes you know, if you know, if you're in the ring You've got to assume the other person's dad knock you out, right? So you better defend yourself and then take the offense to do the same, which means preparing yourself for the for the fight, using your best strategy, and then going there and planning a win. So it becomes who else is like minded with you and your same circumstance? And how can you work together to pull each other into a better circumstance? Because it's like they say, you know, power it seeks its power succeeds, nothing without demand. You know, people aren't just going to say, you know what, we should do the right thing for those people. No, that's not going to happen. As it comes to the point of, look, this is what I've got. And if you want any of it is what I have to have negotiation, or I don't need you at all. So I'm taking what are what I mean. We just can't depend on others to sell We change the paradigm, we have to change your thought process.

Unknown Speaker

Right? And there we are a little past a little past two and I want to make sure I get my thank yous and so acknowledge our our two profound conversation Listen, thank you both for for joining us today. And also for for Erika Christie, who is our engineer and she does a lot of the post production work related to the podcast for this and of course, my business partners, Karim Ali, and Samuel Shareef for all the hard work that they do also to support these episodes. And we started out today with the quote saying from Helen Keller, the only thing worse than being blind is having sight and no vision. So as we develop our economic Development Series on Profound Conversations. We will be looking at these questions and saying how do we develop a new vision. Thank you very much for joining us for this episode of Profound Conversations.

Jameel Aalim-Johnson

Thank you Linda. Thank you Erika.

Yaya Fanusie

Thank you.